Hi, Has anybody of ´retirement age´ i.e. 65 had an experienc...

I´m 69 and in my second year with Luoyang Normal University. No problems with obtaining visa. A couple of my colleagues are also retirement age. I guess it might depend on where in China.

Thank you Jonathan. Actually I am primarily interested in teaching autumn and winter semesters only as I have work commitments during our summer months. I imagine this might restrict my opportunities. (although I notice one recruitment agent talks about short term placements). I am not a career teacher, rather a semi-retired professional person seeking something useful for part of the year. Any useful info. would be gratefully received.
Martin.

Starting the in May 2008, the Chinese authorities have tightened up very much concerning age limits for work in China. When you apply for a position, the school will usually ask you to send a scanned copy of the date page of your passport.The school will inform you ikf obtgaining a visa is possible or not. I am in Shanghai and am having a hugh problem as I am over 70. Some of my colleages who are 65 and over are having hassles about visas due to age.

Hi Sheldon,
I get the impression it depends on who opens the envelope or who reads the email. I found a private school on the internet who have offered me a job. I emailed them emphasizing my age and was told ´no problem´. I look ten years younger so that might have helped. Also I am only interested in 3 months work, maximum 6 months. In Vietnam you don´t need a work visa for apointments up to 3 months, you use your tourist visa. I am told Vietnam are not ageist but you do need a degree for a full work permit. (Does a short term contract avoid a work permit in China?) Thailand is really my choice but phew! it won´t be long before they require a doctorate, unless you work voluntarily for free.
It would be handy if you could speak to Jonathan Day (see below) but this site prohibits personal contact. I have tried to contact a previous blogger who said he can get plenty of work in Thailand without their stringent requirements. Manna from Heaven! I would love to know the hints and wrinkles but not on this site I´m afraid.
Keep me posted on any developments, I am eager to keep in touch.
Martin.

Hi Martin,

I´m recently back from China - see my reply to the post above. Ageism doesn´t seem to be a problem with Chinese authorities. MOST government institutions don´t offer short term contracts, however SOME do, so 6 months is possible - actually 4 months. This means Autumn Winter will run Sep - Dec 2008 (better get a move on!) & Spring Summer will be Mar-Jun 2009).

You can get illegal jobs with private schools on an ´L´ visa but there is no guarantee they will actually pay you if they know you are only there for a short time, and you won´t have a leg to stand on if they don´t - may explain why your school were keen.

Sheldon is in Shanghai where everyone wants to work, so schools can be a lot more picky there.

Good Luck

Hi Paul,
I am convinced the school I ´discovered´ is OK. They seem to be different from most of those in the money money money rat race, and they are in a small town location. (They would have to drag me kicking and screaming to one of those horrendous polluted cities!) They even take volunteer teachers for short term stints, but they are a private school, not a government state school.
Do you know what an ´F´ visa is?
Apparently Cambodia is easy now. No doctorate in nuclear physics required and ´old timers´ are not put out to graze. The money is probably lousy but it´s S.E. Asia and probably like Thailand was 60 years ago. I might look in that direction. The problem is that it pisses like hell in our summer! You can´t win.
Martin.

That is true as to what J. said in his post. It depends on the school, PSB and or FE dept. and if they want you.

Matrin,

You first posted back in April.

In China:

* You are not going to get an ´F´ Visa.
* You will not work legally without a ´Z´ Visa
* Getting a ´Z´ Visa depends on the school, not the authorities
* The ability of the school depends on:

Matrin,

You first posted back in April.

In China:

* You are not going to get an ´F´ Visa.
* You will not work legally without a ´Z´ Visa
* Getting a ´Z´ Visa depends on the school, not the authorities
* The ability of the school depends on:

Matrin,

You first posted back in April.

In China:

* You are not going to get an ´F´ Visa.
* You will not work legally without a ´Z´ Visa
* Getting a ´Z´ Visa depends on the school, not the authorities
* The ability of the school depends on:

Hi Paul,
You were about to say "the ability of the school depends on" - I am interested to know what more you have to say.

Martin,

I don´t know what happened there - system locked up, hit lots of keys, no network, went to bed, had to replace network adapter next day.

So, lets start again with a bit of re-editing.

You first posted back in April - it´s about time you made a move! (We´ll come back to this)

For China:

* You are not going to get an ´F´ Visa.
* You will not work legally without a ´Z´ Visa
* Getting a ´Z´ Visa depends on the school, not the authorities who couldn´t give a f*** how old you are. All the FAO are interested in is:
(a) do the school have the right paperwork?
(b) do you have AIDS or syphilis?
(c) are you a psychopathic axe-murderering kiddie fiddler?

Of these

(a) is the most important - it´s an easy life stamping documents with a red star: if they find a mistake, kudos to them and they´ll get a bonus
(b) they´ll pick up on this when you have a medical (don´t make life easier for them by having one at home - it´s a waste of money)
(c) there´s a "don´t ask, don´t tell policy" on this one, and how would they know anyway, they don´t ask for a CRB

* The ability of the school to get (a) depends on whether they:
(i) want you
(ii) employ someone who knows what they are doing - this may be a problem

You need the following to apply for a ´Z´ Visa

* Letter of invitation - plus one of:
* "Alien Employment Licence" this is something the school will get from the Provincial Social Security Bureau - this was what I needed last time I applied for a ´Z´Visa - the school need to know both that they need to get this and how to get it - see (ii) above
* Signed contract - this was how I first got into China - it may not be relevant or acceptable now - if you´re applying in London they´ll probably want an AEL.

So, that´s how to get a legal job in China with an official government school. Unfortunately the people you need to deal with, if this is what you want to do, are probably now all on holiday.

So, maybe, you´re left with the private school option. The ´professional´ ones know how to get you in.

Stop wasting time and just go. Sometimes you you just need to go for it. There are plenty of people working in China who aren´t qualified, who aren´t native speakers, who are over 60 and don´t have blue eyes.

JFDI

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your reply. That´s very helpful. Actually I am not immediately seeking a teaching job in China. I am off to Thailand in December to do 2-3 months voluntary teaching and will probably be looking to China for work in the summer and hopefully earn enough to at least pay the outgoings.
It seems the ´Z´ visa is the thing. A school I have been communicating with say their teachers are working there with an ´F´ visa which I understand is a ´buisness´ visa. If that´s true it certainly shows laxity to say the least!

Martin

I am 77 and I have been unsuccessful in obtaining a work visa in China. No schools will hire me although I have many years of ESL experience. They are ageist for sure!!!!!!!

I note what you say Robert. The situation seems to be that as decribed by Paul below. It´s up to the schools rather that the visa authorities. A school I hope to be visiting in the Spring have assured me my age is not a problem and they have had volunteers teaching there of 70 years of age. All those factors which go against us, including the requirement for a degree, which I have vociferously opposed, are caused by the gross oversupply of teachers worldwide. The market is flooded with applicants from backpackers to gap year undergrads to experienced certified teachers. The employers can take their pick. Look at the number of EFL teacher training companies from online outfits from California to established Trinity College establishments. There are thousands. It´s a buyers market.

I´ve heard that also, apparently anyone over the age of 55 could have a lot of difficulty obtaining a visa and work permit. It might be due to the schools, or the authorities, but either way, there could be a problem. Of course the school accepts volunteers, why wouldn´t they? They charge for the classes and pay no salaries, great deal for them, huh? It´s a no brainer....

Absolutely right Mark. Thailand is the worst culprit. They accept volunteers to teach at the under funded schools e.g. rural schools for children of agricultural workers, degree or no degree, but if you want a paid job and you are a non-graduate forget it. You will never get a work permit. If a degree is such an important pre-requisite for a teacher in Thailand surely that should apply to all teachers, voluntary or paid? Clearly graduate career teachers would be very reluctant to volunteer so they have to recruit volunteer ´lesser´ teachers. But that implies kids in under-funded schools are ´lesser´ kids. Why should they have a second class education? Of course, the term ´lesser´ teacher is one apparently supported by the Thai MoE. Actually, volunteer teachers can be damn good teachers who love their work and prepared to do it for the love of it. The children of the poorer families can benefit from that.

I thought I added a thread...but it doesn´t appear. As for South Korea, I experienced ageism in hiring... I contacted the Ministry of Labor and Ministry of Education....as, they have a new law now (instituted in 2009) which prohibits age discrimination in hiring and on the job, if qualified and healthy can do the job. The Ministry of Labor has encouraged me to file a formal Complaint (it will be re the corporate hagwon, Chung-Dahm, Inc. - and a couple other schools). The recruiters don´t mind age, but the school directors tend to want these young uns who aren´t always responsible, b.t.w. I´m interested now more in being a Governess for wealthy families in Russia...it usually pays very well, much better than South Korea, plus my varied talents (English teaching, Music piano voice, and Yoga movement dance) - would be more utilized in this setting. However, I think there may be ageism there, too....we´ll see. It really is very stupid to have such prejudice if the person is qualified and healthy and competent and enduring! :)

Hi Martin I worked in China 3 years ago at age 67 in Changchun. I was able to find two jobs with different organizations. one as a teacher/tutor and the other as a lecturer at North East Normal University. When I was getting the work permit in China the Director of the Immigration bureau had to interview me. He told me there was a limitation of age 70. However, I have tried to find posts with other schools or intsitutions this year and it is becoming difficult. If the school really wants you and they have a good relationship with the local police station where you need to get some papers stamped. the school can arrange a z working visa. Private schools or universities are a little less demanding. grant