Hello Everyone, I’m not a native English speaker but qualifi...

Just say that you are an English speaking person, technically you are!

There has been research that showed being a native speaker does not necessarily mean you are a better teacher than a non-native. A non-native speaker understands what is involved in the learning of the target language and can relate to the learner and the difficulty the students encounters. The non-native speaker teacher brings a different perspective and can guide the student that perhaps a native speaker teacher might overlook.

Dear Arasi,

Thank you for your post, and concerns about getting work teaching English, particularly since you have a CELTA, notwithstanding that you were born and raised in a non-native speaking country as defined by most employers today. I would suggest that you get a masters degree in a native-speaking country, and live there for several years, so that your "accent" is no longer an issue. The main reason why employers don’t want non-native speakers teaching their clients/students is because of the "accent" of people from non-native countries. I am sorry that you have obviously experienced a form of "discrimination", but I have seen this repeatedly during my 15 year career, and have noted emplyer exceptions when people/teachers whose parents are from non-native speaking countries have migrated to native-speaking countries and/or were born there (native speaking countries) themselves, putting them on somewhat equal footing as our white colleagues. You can’t change the colour of your skin but you can compensate with higher education, and irrefutable/incontrovertible evidence that your language skills, and therefore ability, are the same or "superior" to a white person from a native-speaking country. Please don’t be offended by the prejudices of the world, and accept them for what they are. Once you can prove that your skills are equal or "superior" to a white person, then "most", but not all, employers may be willing to give you a "fair shake" in the English teaching market. Best of luck and kind regards!

Karl

You may have better luck teaching in the US. I think most countries who are looking for ESL teachers may be concerned about an accent - and you may have none - I don’t know, but they probably assume you do. As an American, I can say that I would welcome any good English teacher who values the integrity of the language. I am of the opinion that it is eroding in our speech and in our writing.

Arasi,

I feel for you. I am a native English teacher, with several years teaching in Japan, and even I am finding it difficult to get work back in Japan. You face a big hurdle and an unjustifiable one at that. I have met many native English speakers who have no idea about grammar, how to teach or even a commitment to teaching. If you have taken the time to learn English then, in my books, that makes you more than qualified to teach it. Good luck! Mike

The best way to interpret “Native” is perhaps to think of an Aboriginal person. He/she would be a “Native” of that particular country so could truly pass as a native language speaker!
Unfortunately, no matter what your background, and or English level, some employers (Including employment agencies) are always briefed that a “native” is by “birth” into that mother tongue!
I hope this answers your question. But may I suggest that you keep plugging away, there is an employer out here looking for you. You are a English speaker, but how far you could twist the meaning,would depend upon the type of position you were after.Good luck!

ARASI, I SUGGEST YOU GO TO CHINA - ITS A HUGE MARKET. I WORKED THERE FOR SIX YEARS WITH NEPALIS, NIGERIANS, FRENCH PEOPLE ETC AS COLLEAGUES. CELTA IS MORE THAN MOST OF MY COLLEAGUES HAD. THE CRITERIA IS THAT THE STUDENTS AND STAFF LIKE YOU. good luck david

I feel discriminated against to point that I have even stopped looking for these jobs. I am an African raised by British foster parents and English is the only language I know but I am considered as a non-native English speaker, on what grounds? I think the criteria being used to employ ESL teachers goes beyond whether you are a native or non- native, I think it also has to do with race,nationality and ethnicity. Sad but that is the reality.

I have a couple of suggestions:
1) Create a power point lesson, then record your prensentation of the topic. I would present phonetics and a grammar point.
2) In your current area, ask your freinds and neighbors to come to an English demonstration. This will shiw your diversity and ability to teach English to speakers of different ages, gender and learning levels. Record this session.
In the case of 1 and 2, I would get a copy of a native English speaker, teach the same points so that they can compare side by side.
3) Go to a teacher at an Eglish teaching school ask if you could teach a class or portionn of a class. Record this as well then have the teacher evaluate your performance. In addition to the eval, it would be advantages if thdy would write a letter of recommendation in support of your abilitu to teach as a native speaker.
I hope this helps, goodluck in your quest.
Donri
ESL Instructor

Hello to all teachers and citizens of the world!!!
Teachers need the students to integrate with all others in the world witout any sort of discrimination based on colour, nationality, the mother tongue etc. There are so called "native speakers" of English teaching to so called "Non-native" speakers of English! Isn’t this Native speaker attitude a kind of violation of human rights? Why do some agencies ask for a colour photo? There is another hidden secret. Not only one should be a native speaker but should also have a colourful figure!!!
This is what we call the attitude of some people from so called developed countries.
Anderson Wick.

It is the host countries and the policies of the Universities. The staffing agencies such as EduExperts, SBC etc. follow these policies and never waiver. One way is to record your voice-profile through our www.talkingcv.com resource. We always have candidates completed this as even Native Engish status does not ensure good English verbal or written skills. Let me know if you need some more information.
J.E. Bishop

I’m a native English speaker with 27 years of "real world experience" behind me, but I’m constantly passed over because I lack a university degree. Instead, young people with a piece of paper in their hand from a university and no world experience are hired to fill positions where an older person would more likely "fit the bill". A university degree does NOT an experienced teacher/tutor make.

The required documents: Passport etc. will be used to enforce the native english requirement. I recruit ESL teachers all the time and the client allows teachers from: UK, USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. In fact, even if you were born in say, India and studied and lived in UK all your life, many will not present you to the University. It will take a political effort from the host offending countries.
J.E. Bishop

Hello, it is very nice to read about all the different points of view. I’ve had some difficulties finding an English Teaching jobs in some countries but not all. There have been countries that have given me the opportunity to teach like, Brazil, Mexico, and Italy. I say don’t give up, I haven’t given up! I keep looking for opportunities, because I believe teaching is an Art as well.

I am also not a native but I am very successful and my career as an English teacher. I just say that I am British (yes - lie!). ..and that’s on top of the fact that I have tattoos everywhere. You just gotta trick them into employing you. Be a fox.

YES! that’s precisely TRUE! Its our passion and our air we intake. It doesn’t mean that "only" native speakers has the correct grammar and are good in speaking. I’d like the employers to know how we feel about that. Good day!

Arasi,
Unfortunately you will come up against a lot of resistance and I sympathise deeply with you. There is a myth that only native speakers of any language are suitable as teachers but this is just not so. In my time I’ve met many good teachers [native and non-native] and more than enough of the not so good ones [again native and non-native]. Can I also add that almost half of my university tutors were non-native English speakers but that didn’t detract in any way.

There is a lot prejudice against perceived non-native speakers, some of which is based on the above mentioned myth and some of which is racist. I can only say be persistent, try countries in the Far East, if you find a college or school there that accepts you they will treat you like treasure. As a second language English speaker you have something of an edge over monolingual teachers, you have proved your proficiency in English by the fact that you have gained a CELTA and both these points should be exploited.

Be persistent and good luck.

Say you are a NATIVE SPEAKER of English. The 2 major languages in India are English and Hindi. So simply say you were educated in English, speak it
at home and it is your ’’mother tongue’’. That may work.

Hi,
Miss Arasi , you are not alone. I have been trying and wanting to apply for an ESL teaching position for quite sometime now . And like you, was rejected too, many times on the ground that they need
native speakers. I’ve learned to accept that and stopped applying to spare myself from further frustration. I am a Filipino and English is our second language and it is our medium of instruction
in schools since grade school. We speak the language very well. I guess, the American accent is more important for the school owners than ...u know...

I see that in a lot of the job ads, "native speaker wanted". Ironically, here in Canada where the official languages are English and French, we have ESL teachers from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds. I haven’t done the research, but I imagine this would the same to a certain degree in all countries where English is the official language. dcb

Yes. Sometimes it is unfair. For example, I grew up in Australia, and tend to reject by my own skin colour nation.

I think the clause ’native speaker’ is often used as a screening device in posting positions. In my personal experiences, I have been in conferences with many other teachers that taught their own native languages, but were required to use English to benefit from the conference itself. I have nothing but admiration for people that are competently using several languages, and are not limited to one.

As a US citizen, many of us are intentionally limited to using English only to express scholarship or make restitution. Someone who is serious about learning a language does not care if their teacher is a native speaker of that language, as long as the teacher gives them useful means of communicating in that language.

It is important that a person with superior English language skills not give up or be thrown by the request for a ’native speaker’. For instance, all English speakers do not speak the Queen’s English, but if they can communicate successfully with other speakers, the goal is within sight!

Yes, they all wanted Native speakers with blond hair, blue eyes. They don’t like Asian people with black hair and brown eyes. Why? Because they are not really concern of the TRUE education. They wanted the money they earn because their teacher is from the west. Just have a look about qualifications... for Native " NO DEGREE and no experience is ok. Can’t even spell the days of the week right, and sorry to say, the Native speaker now goes as far as EUROPEAN countries. Even you are from SPAIN, BULGARIA as long you speak English you are native. Non Native, even you have all the degrees, TESOL ,etc... you pull out all your certificates... yes, they are going to get you but with SOOOOO LITTLE SALARY AND TREAT YOU LIKE A SHIT! THIS IS WHAT IS GOING ON . EVEN HOW WELL YOU TEACH.

I know what you meant. My friend, distant relative of Obama, recently applied to a teaching position under the Shenzhen Government. While I could understand some private language schools will only hire whites, in order to survive, it’s hard to comprehend any gov’t in the world will "legalize" discrimination. They might just as well post an ad "Whites only, no colour"!! It is what it is. They flat out told my friend : Whites only. The salary is one of the lowest in the world. Totally not worth it!

Keep working hard at it. There will definitely be a good employer who knows your worth. Just take all those who have rejected you as not being worthy of you! Hard times call for assertiveness as well.

Hello Arasi Rajasegran,

The problem is not your ability to speak or teach English. Your problem is your nationality and race. First of all, you are from a third world country which does not scream educated even if you were educated at Harvard and your trying to teach English you will face racial issues. Which brings us to our second issue of image representation you look Indian and may be you have an Indian accent. Both the look and possible accent are a hard sale for an English schools to buy you up as a commodity and sell you to its customers. Those customers are seeking teachers from specific places or races either Caucasian or Asian (Japanese/Korean) would be more preferred.

Maybe you should start by saying that you are a native speaker and (providing that you do not have an accent) then the interviewer, after hearing your voice will not really mind what your mother tongue is once you have the desired accent they are looking for.

Also from experience I’ve realized that even though someone has been taught in English, being a non-native speaker there are some things that just would not come naturally. I am in a doctoral program and realized that even though some of my classmates are doctoral candidates and are very smart, the way that they come across is a dead giveaway that English was not their native language. Even some of my professors who are non-natives and teaching doctoral level courses have extremely heavy accents despite the fact that they were educated in English. So the "native only" requirement I believe is because of accent and not really because of qualifications.

Arasi,
Please do not take this wrong but I have worked in the USA as a teacher of English and History before teaching throughout Asia. The main or head teacher have been taught English in college of attended an all English speaking college. Very few of them had any true grasp of really speaking in English. There always seemed to be little errors in their speaking and writing. What also makes matter worse and some teachers will agree with me and others think I am full of it but I wrote my Thesis on "The Two English Languages." There are almost 10,000 diffrent words between British and American English and I am not talking accents. When people born in countries that speak English as their primary tongue and still don’t know every word or applications of those words then being from a diffrent country and speaking English may allow you to say you can speak the English language and teach it, but teaching it as your native tongue would lessen your true qualifications as an English teacher. Passing a test or being certified are very diffrent than living, learning and teaching the English language. I am not trying to be a killjoy or flip flop others with my own opinions but just sharing my own view in response to this forum question.

You should teach English in the US. I know a community college in my area where you can teach English to Russian students that want to learn.

Arasi,
I’m african american of caribbean descent, meaning my heritage is British West Indies AND American. I’ve taught and traveled around the world as a native English Language Consultant, Teacher and private Tutor. Gurl friend, there is nothing like a native speaker that can communicate and reassure a "customer/student", hey, "I’ve got your back" like a native speaker. One word sentences (without Subject, Verb, Predicate) like HELP! WOW! and holy shizballs! can convey dynamic messages, that were created by native speakers of English Language. This is what the customer/employer wants. He wants someone who can do more than speak, read, write a Language. He wants someone who can give it Life and Transform others while speaking. Yes, we have B.A’s, and TEFL Certification to add to our native speaking abilities. However, in any and every language, there are innuendo’s that only a native speaker can feel and impart to another native speaker that let’s them know, everything will be o.k. and I’m o.k. and you’re o.k. Trust me on this. I don’t even attempt to teach Arabic or Amharic, which I speak fairly well, because I am NOT a native of these languages.

Arasi I am Indian (Anglo Indian) the only language that i know is English I have been teaching in India for 23yrs in the Kindergarten and have a degree along with that i have a TESOL/TEFLand a TOEIC I found it difficult to get a teaching post because I am Indian with dark skin all that they need is you to be white that is why they say send a copy of your passport or a full size pic .Keep trying just like i did.

I would say keep on looking. It seems like you have a lot more qualifications than many English teachers I’ve met in China and Korea. Also, I’ve met some teachers from India that have taught English in Korea where I currently live. However, China may not be a picky and I’m pretty sure you can find a good and stable job there. Good luck and just keep looking, I’m sure you eventually get your foot in the door.

Every Language has a built in Culture and Attitude guys. Employers want the Attitude, the mentality of the Native speaker. Degree, Certification, Experience is a plus, along with helping students stay motivated and engaged during classroom sessions, is what a qualified ESL/Native can impart.

From what I’ve been given to understand, schools in foreign countries are looking for their students to hear and "emulate" the accents of North America (Canada and the U.S.) above others, then Britain, Australia and New Zealand as those are the "working" dialects most commonly heard. No matter how perfectly someone from another country speaks English...if I may draw the comparison to people from India and Pakistan, no racial discrimination intended...it’s evident from their "stress" points in their diction and the rapid-fire delivery of their speech that English isn’t their first language. And it can be difficult to understand for a native speaker. I try to spend time with the students I tutor so I can cultivate an "ear" for their accent, which always makes it easier for me to understand them. This takes a good ten minutes or so, when their accent is particularly "thick". It’s not YOUR problem, it originates with whoever taught you. They focused on accuracy before fluency. Fluency should, in my opinion, come first. Accuracy comes later, something I stress to my students: where do you stress a word, and which word or words in the sentence are stress. Incorrect stressing can throw off comprehension from the perspective of the person who’s listening to you. Every language has a musical pitch to it, ups and downs within the sentence. Incorrectly applied it confuses the person who’s native language you’re using.

Jeffrey: I was born British and raised in Canada by British parents. In school I received "wrong" marks from my English teacher for using "sabre" instead of "saber", "neighbour" instead of "neighbor", etc. My father actually went to myschool and took my teacher to task in front of the principal, holding a copy of the Oxford English Dictionary in his hand. I completely understand the "two different English" perspective. In Canada, most ESL teachers are taught that Canadian/British spellings apply, yet when it comes right down to it, the graduate teacher invariably devolves to what they’re most comfortable with. I explain this to my students when they ask: "Both spellings are correct. Use the one you prefer."

Hi Arasi,
I totally agree with you. Even I have Cert in TESOL from Nepal but unfortunately till now, the question " Only Native Speakers from Canada, NZ, USA, S. Africa and etc, can apply" always pops out at any job application.
Despite explaining that I am from an English speaking family, and having cert and 1119 paper qualification, its just not acceptable. It’s in the mind set of these employers that only Native Speakers have good command in English but the advantage we have is that, we do not have the slang when we speak therefore our words are clearer for the students to hear and understand. Only when they realize this, will we have a chance with the native Speakers.

Some of the best users of the English language that I have met were students from former British colonies, studying in English-speaking universities.

I’m not sure what some others here think in terms of native speakers or qualifications but after reading the posts that a few people wrote, I tend to wonder whether or not they actually do speak English as their first language. Especially that Rosalia lady, I don’t believe she was raised and educated in Australia at all. If she was, I’ll eat my hat. This is what she wrote " I grew up in Australia, and tend to reject by my own skin colour nation." Would a true native speaker write/say this? Maybe if they were a grade 4 or 5 student I suppose. Also, Arasi wrote this " I have CELTA and yet almost all English teacher positions I have applied for are rejected on the grounds that I am not a native speaker." Were you rejected or was the position rejected? Again, not something a true native speaker would write, in my opinion. Either way, the fact of the matter remains that the schools can basically hire whoever they want, period. They are the ones who pay you and have to apply to the local education office in their city to get you the required visa and work permit. Why would they go through all the trouble of applying on behalf of a non native speaker just to end up being told no? That basically gives them the right to choose. I’m not sure if some of you may know this but many governments now have a rule that only native speakers can be hired to teach English. This Alisa lady advising people to lie is absolutely absurd, what happens if you get caught after you start working in a foreign country? You would either be fined and deported or possibly even thrown in jail for a short time until deportation. What a ridiculous thing to say, please don’t listen to this woman at all. She’s giving you terrible advice and basically telling you to commit fraud. She obviously doesn’t consider the consequences that this action may result in. A native speaker is defined as someone who was born, raised and educated from primary school through University in a country where English is the first official language and the medium of instruction. Most countries such as China, Korea, Japan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. list these countries as follows: Australia, Canada, England, Ireland, New Zealand, Scotland, the U.S. and Wales. Also, they have even rejected some people from these countries because they have a very strong accent and again, this is their right to do so. Governments are not going to change their rules and requirements just because you posted a thread on a website and received a lot of support. It might make you feel better but at the end of the day you will still be in the same boat, regardless. If you don’t meet the requirements, why apply for a job that says native speakers only? You’re basically just setting yourself up to be rejected and it seems pointless to me. As we say, you’re kicking a dead horse.....

We have the same plight. No matter how highly - qualified you are, the main issue here is being a "native speaker". Like you, I’d been rejected several times due to this, my academic qualifications don’t serve any purpose simply because I ain’t an L1 English speaker. They’re far more concerned with accent, failing to recognize that intelligibility of what is spoken is more important than imitating a native speaker of English.
While this is disheartening, I still persist on my plan to share my expertise teaching English to speakers of other languages. One day soon, they will realize that we can teach side by side, say, even more diligently and conscientiously than the "rest."

Paul, you’re a perfect example of someone who would/should not get hired. Your grammar is terrible. I assume you come from the Philippines.....

Hi there
I know of a group of schools in Sudan (Cambridge International Training Centres) who will definately employ you, pay you well and treat you well! Just google it.

Good Luck
LeeAnn

Hi Arasi
Don’t get disheartened by employers or agencies that reject you on the grounds of not being a "native speaker". In the Middle East there are many jobs that pay quite good salaries and accept you on the grounds of your education.
Good luck!
Vince

Lying about your place of origin and/or that you aren’t a "true" native English speaker can indeed have serious consequences. If you examine the guidelines, requirements and contracts they all state that if you are caught out lying or fail to meet the requirements for any reason you will be fined (depending upon the gravity of the lie, it can be quite severe from what I’ve seen). It’s NOT worth it. I do indeed sympathize but from everything I’ve seen on the job sites it boils down to: The ability to teach English with natural diction, idioms, slang and idiomatic phrases. Those are things you acquire through years of living and speaking the language at the source.

I’m not sure why my first response did not get posted so here I am typing the whole thing all over again.

Arasi, I feel for you as we are definitely in the same boat.

Interviewers are quick to promise me a job and are also extremely optimistic with my qualifications and experience as a teacher until they ask the magic question "Where are you from?". I speak just like any other educated American so I don’t have a native-language accent like most other second language speakers of English. This only gets me up to a certain point in Skype and phone interviews. After I tell them that I’m from the Philippines, they then say any one of these things:

1. Oh, I’m sorry. We thought you’re American. We don’t hire Filipinos.
2. Oh, we can’t give you a work permit because of your nationality.
3. Oh, but we only hire native speakers.

I’m so used to these lines already that I’ve totally given up on looking for ESL jobs on the internet. I hold a degree in Mass Communications as well as TESOL, TEYL and TEFL. I also have years of international teaching experience but all of these don’t matter since I don’t have blue eyes, very fair skin, blond hair and on top of that, I don’t hold a passport from any of the preferred countries.

Mr. Penticost, perhaps you can choose to word your thoughts more appropriately next time. Tactlessly telling someone that his grammar is terrible and then trying to name his nationality in the next statement don’t seem to be proper for an educator or a professional man such as yourself to do. I suggest we keep this thread in order by sticking to the topic. Thank you very much.

Dear Miss,
I can see both sides.
There probably are peculiarities, specifics to the language that would/could be picked up by a native English teacher, your text above has some peculiarities that I don’t think that a native English speaker would write, but then I have not read what you have written except by you. I think that you missed an "I am", you missed an "a", and "almost all of the English teaching positions that I have applied for are rejected", the ’teacher/teaching positions are not rejected, you are rejected for the teacher/teaching positions. Sorry, but I could go on. And ’Good luck!’
GBP. (a native of California and a graduate of UCB, 1975, CNR, ’Go Bears!)

Vincent: the latest trend since August out of the Middle East and other countries, even China, has been the requirements to not only be a "native English speaker", but to also hold a degree (a BA or BSc). From my perspective, if you hold a Level 2 (college accreditation) TESL certification WHY should you need a university degree to teach English? If the person is certified to the international standard THAT should be sufficient for native speakers. Accuracy comes with time and use for the student in a real world environment: i.e. a country where English is the first language, not just practice.
Again, I support the statement: Don’t lie on your application about your background. If you weren’t raised in an English-speaking country (no matter your ethnic origins) you could get into serious trouble stating you are a "native English speaker".

Indeed that is true about the discrimination, but these geezers are not serious about learning a language, it is just a public relations thing for them. I hate to get crossed up in all this academic jargon, but there are many administrators that are conditioned to feel discrimination against someone because of their colour is natural. It damn well is not! Anyone thinking it is will be fooling themselves and missing out on so much variety and variations of learning.

We all can learn from each other culturally, language idioms and all. As a musician I know there are always new additions to nomenclature in just about every field these days! Sticking with the classical approach is not making you successful when it comes to teaching flexibility. It takes reason...

Hemalatha, do you actually think slang is not a part of any language?? Many schools and text books actually encourage students to learn and use it because it gives them a better grasp and understanding of the target language. That along with idioms and colloquialisms provides them with a wider knowledge of the language and gives them more confidence, which enables them to communicate more effectively and understand more of what they hear. I read your post and your writing is at about the same level as a primary student in my country. It’s quite obvious that you either have little or no experience whatsoever in teaching English. I’ve worked with many Filipinos during my 7+ years of teaching in Asia and I’ve yet to meet anyone from the Phils who speaks, reads and writes as well as a native speaker. Every single one of them had some form of accent and I actually had to sit in on some of their classes to observe them at the request of my Director. I saw many mistakes in pronunciation, grammar, syllable stress, spelling, etc. You’ve just provided us with a perfect example of the reason why most countries will now only hire native speakers. The expression "putting your foot in your mouth" comes to mind,.....

Omar, I thought this was the topic. The debate is about who is more qualified to teach English as a second language, correct? I’m sorry if you were offended but facts are facts. You have every right to disagree but explain this for me. I’ve seen quite a few ads for teachers in the Philippines as well, in cities like Manila, Cebu, General Santos, Cagayan De Oro, Angeles, etc. They also say native speakers only. Is that just a coincidence? I would love to hear your comments, thanks.

Michelle, if you have all of these qualifications, why are there so many grammatical and punctuation errors in your post?

Message from my fellow Filipino, Omar Edfel Cloma

Mr. Penticost, perhaps you can choose to word your thoughts more appropriately next time. Tactlessly telling someone that his grammar is terrible and then trying to name his nationality in the next statement don’t seem to be proper for an educator or a professional man such as yourself to do. I suggest we keep this thread in order by sticking to the topic.

Indeed I was dumbfounded while reading his comments on Paul’s message. I am also a Filipino who is now working as an ESL teacher here in Kazakhstan. Having a wrong grammar sometimes doesn’t necessarily mean that you come from the Philippines. It hurts me knowing that there are people like you who were born that way. Just pray that after our life here on earth and when we face our Creator one day, He speaks English not Filipino or else you will be left behind together with lots of you who easily judge us based on our nationality. Good luck! Have a great day!!

Mary, I didn’t guess his nationality based on his grammar. I looked at his photo and his name, period. You also have mistakes in your post, care to explain? As I said to Omar, there are also many teaching jobs in the Philippines which say native speakers only.Your country seems to have the exact same rules as others in Asia. Ironic, isn’t it? I’d really like to hear your thoughts on that one.

here in Indonesia, they employ people from the Phillipines over native speakers,,, they now have the monopoloy, due to the fact its like buy one, get two free,, schools can hire 3 or 4 teachers from Philipines,, for the salary of just one from say UK or Canada, as far as the main aspects of English, grammar etc, many non natives I have noticed over my 13 years as a native teacher, have a better grasp of these aspects, cultural enrichment, foibles... and pronunciation,,, all let these teachers down to some degree,, and the choice of vocab,, structure of sentences,, style of use of English are very un natural. but on the whole (due to MK ULTRA) social mind control experiments during the last 40 years,, these poor folk have been pretty much cloned mentally, and make great employees as they are "yessers"

Mary, one more thing. Most of the positions I saw in the Philippines actually said "Americans Only". So tell me which is worse, the Phils accepting teachers from only one certain country or a country that accepts teachers from 6 or 7 different ones? I think it seems pretty obvious that the Phils is more discriminating than many others in certain ways. I actually worked with a Filipino guy during the summer at a company that hired us along with 5 other native speakers. We were editing and rewriting text that was translated by local Chinese students who are English majors in University. Of all the people doing this job, the Filipino was the only one who had his work rejected and sent back by the U.S. and U.K. offices. They said and I quote, "Who wrote this rubbish, an 8 year old?"

Did anyone else read Annie de Guzman’s post? I just hope she doesn’t teach her students to write and speak like her. Yet another example which perfectly illustrates exactly what I keep saying, just awful....

Esteemed Teachers,
I just have to get behind this, I have encountered a similar problem to Arasi’s and in my humble opinion I think the insinuation is absolutely base. I am Kenyan national with above board qualifications and an unrivaled flare of the queens language. I happened to benefit from a private education and was taught with "native speakers" I also happen to share the British accent down to the bone. Well, despite all this I still find it difficult to get a job as an ESL instructor simply because am not a native speaker.I think this is very discriminatory.

Well said Walter! I’m sorry to hear about your experiences looking for an ESL position. I agree with you, it’s very unfair. Maybe you could give Paul and Annie a few English lessons, they could use a little help....

Dear Mr. Mark Pentecost,
I have read some of your feedback and comments, and respect your awareness and knowledge well.
Probably, (and please, I do not wish to offend), but, maybe apart from yourself, many people are genuinely seeking work in an ESL environment, and as such, I feel, you could assist them in a more constructive way, by advising, suggesting, and or guiding them to seek avenues which could land them the job they seek.
I have unfortunately, read only negative responses from you, and as teaching professionals and eminent body of language educators, surely, we should aid, assist, and help those who need our POSITIVE input towards harmonising and creating a fair teaching community around the world.
We should NEVER be seeking to putdown fellow professional whether they be native English speakers or other, I think we are all equal, and ANYTHING which helps your fellow colleagues around the world to gain something tangible, is a far better way to go than outright destructive criticism?
Please accept my apologies, but this is not intended to offend you or anyone, we are ALL aware of the discriminatory nature of this profession overseas, and until WE as a teaching community, take a stand against such perceptions by host countries, it is unlikely that in the near future things will change.

Remember, it is the race, colour, ethnicity, language, looks, hair and eye colour, your passport type, photos, all such screening are the factors to job rejection, and let’s not be so naive as to think on Native is a qualification!

As a teaching community, WE as educators need to send out a message to host countries that they cannot ride roughshod over potential talent merely on the basis of “Native born only”!




Thank you for your time.

Yes Walter. disturbs, annoys and irritates me that several African countries are not included in the native (umbrella) where , in many cases, understanding of and elecution of English,most often is far superior to most natives of example the UK.............

While sympathising with your predicament, the fact of the matter is employers in many parts of the world prefer suitably qualified, experienced native speakers of English. This is often a government requirement. I currently teach in the Middle East and work alongside American, South African, Pakistani, British, French & Tunisian instructors. The biggest hurdle that many of these instructors (both native & non-native) face is lack of relevant classroom experience.

Well Walter, maybe you could explain to me why so many countries now only accept native speakers. Perhaps you could look at a few different factors such as the parents of the students, standard of education in the teacher’s home country, the past experiences that schools may have had after hiring non native speakers, etc. Which country are you teaching in at the moment? I’m sorry but I call it as I see it and when I read some of the things posted on here, what other conclusion could I draw from it? I’m pretty sure you see the exact same mistakes as I do after reading the posts. You obviously have the right to express your own opinion, what did you think after reading some of these posts? Do you think their English is up to the same standard as a native speaker? One girl on here was complaining that non natives get paid less, do you think that’s unfair too? If I wanted to learn Chinese would I pay the same fees to go to an American who has a degree in Chinese language compared to a native speaker of Chinese? What would you do if you wanted to learn another language, go to a native speaker or non native? Also, one of the reasons non natives get paid less is because so many who came before them accepted it and set what is now the standard. So in reality, they can blame that on all the non natives who took the jobs at a lower salary in the past, right? A lot of them are just bitter and resentful but they can’t blame that on native speaking teachers, we don’t make the rules or set the standards.

Sorry Walter, that answer was meant for Talit Paul, not you.

Mr. Talit,

I’d be interested to hear your views on this topic. Let’s say I went to the Philippines to teach English and got paid 2 to 3 times more than a local teacher. This is usually the case there and that’s a standard set by them, right? Now let’s say a Filipino goes abroad and earns 2 to 3 times more than they would get paid back home. I don’t hear them complaining about that. Also, they are the only Asian country that’s actually able to go abroad and teach English, no other country in Asia can do that, right? And the jobs in the Phils specifically say native speakers only, kind of a double standard, wouldn’t you say? They have the exact same rules in their own country but complain about it when they want to teach abroad. Does that seem logical to you?

Non native speaker applicants for teaching position are often stereotyped as English speakers with strong regional accent, if you think you think you have a regional accent I suggest you take the on line accent reduction programs or you can also avail of numerous free accent training on line its just a click away.
If you think you have a neutral accent yet you are often rejected do not be upset! It only means that something much better is in store for you! REJECTIONS doesn’t make you less effective as language teacher.
m a non native speaker as well, but ’m currently teaching in Georgia as Public school teacher.

Non native language teachers are sometime more effective because just like their students they feel and understand what are their students going though because they have been there ,and as non native we tend to formulate, create techniques to make our second language learning more effective, Thus, as non native English teacher we are also sharing these style we created for ourselves to our students to make SLL /TESL effective.

Never lose hope you can make it GIRL!!!! ^_^ you are pretty and vibrant!!

Please stop bashing each other especially grammar structures and refrain from naming names to avoid misunderstanding I know no one is practicing racism here but there are some sensitive people who can not easily get away with it.
We are teaching Communication and Communication is reaching out it, is a symbiosis between two parties, give and take and win-win situations.
This is not an English speaking contest.

and it continues, enough said....

Many of you have this all wrong and it can quite simply be explained in a word, perception. The same reason why someone would go out and pay more for Nike shoes instead of Adidas. Or why a woman would spend more for a Prada or LV handbag instead of Gucci, and others buy a Honda instead of a Hyundai. All of them are similar and good quality but perception is 9/10 of reality. If a parent in Asia is going to send their kid to learn English with a foreign teacher, they have the exact same mentality. In many cases they are spending a lot of money so they have the right to demand what they perceive to be the better quality. It’s simple. I never said all non native teachers were inferior, I was just commenting on what I read here on this particular topic. Think of it this way, if you were a poker player, you would always be looking at the odds and statistics. A school owner/manager is thinking exactly the same way. It’s a big gamble and investment for them to bring a new teacher to their country and school. So if you had to bet on who was going to work out better in the long run, which would you choose? It’s just human nature to believe that the more expensive option must be better quality. It may not always be true, but that’s the way that people think. I’ve met some non native teachers who were very god and some who were unbelievably bad. It’s a gamble, what would you do if it was your child and money or your school? Think about it.

That is really make sense. Even we are not a eaker of English we can do teaching jobs as well as native
Speaker do. Lets try our best and do the best too. Good luck for us.

Hello Arasi.
I am in the same situation.I have one year and no one has given an opportunity to teach in their country.I join you opinion to be "native speaker" does not mean that I know the perfect one language.God bless you!
Elida from Albania

Do you mean that really makes sense? loool

It is widely accepted that native accent has importance in the case of an international curriculum. In the case of language teachers the native speakers doubtlessly have an indigenous skill in the usage of the language. But teaching doesn’t only limited to accent, moreover it is the application of varied skills and techniques. So there should not be a limitation to the teachers those who are non native only on the basis of accent barrier. The efficient candidates have been proved to excel in this international language, which is shown through their performance in the the language proficiency tests conducted by the recognized agencies in the English speaking countries themselves. So why should the authorities hesitate to consider non native speakers even if they are experienced and efficient? Also the approach should be more open in the case of subject teachers, as there is no distinction between the concepts of various subjects around the world, and the nativity should not be a barrier in this case.
So it is my humble request to make the recruitment of international teachers more transparent avoiding the discrimination on cast and creed, as this would would limit the chance of the students to interact with the expert teachers over the globe...

hello
I have worked with 2 English teachers in Thailand and China who where not native English speakers , both had trouble with pronunciation and sentence structure , One was a Muslim from an Arabic country , although his English was Ok his students had trouble understanding him don’t doubt me he was a very good friend and we socialized together a lot.
I know that many schools in Thailand will accept teachers from a non English country. So maybe try there .

Hi Arasi,
Thank you so much for bringing attention to this matter. I’m Korean-American so I don’t fit the profile especially in Asian countries so I have also experienced difficulties despite the fact I hold an M.A. in TESL and have had years of experience as a broadcaster in TV news. I read a lot of the threads in response to your topic and sadly some of us are still victims of cultural hegemony. I don’t know if you have an accent or not but don’t we all? Is Standard English what’s deemed as "perfect English" or would this be considered a dialect for those who speak British or Australian English? What about a southern accent or valley girl talk? If any of us are ever in a position to lead, we should encourage people to hire based on merit instead of going with the flow. As educators, it’s our responsibility to lead and to encourage real dialogue like the one you presented to us. Why shouldn’t we hire English teachers from the Phillipines, India or other countries whose people speak English fluently? I work at a university and we have a large staff of Filipinos, some Blacks, and myself (the one Asian). We are far from perfect but there are schools out there that look passed superficiality. Good-luck and don’t let the bourgeoisie win.

Mark,
Aren’t you the clever one among this group? You’re telling me that native speakers never write anthropomorphically. I agree with you. This is bad writing but people do it all the time. And by the way, English is not the official language of the U.S.

I think that Mark has hit the nail on the head. We are all discriminate over conditions of our requirements and desires. There are so many teachers out there looking for work or the next better paying jobs. The employers are in the driver’s seat and each employer has a different criteria.
There is also the other discrimination. AGE. Many national governments will not accept potential employees over the age of 60 because of fear of paying out retirement funds or medical expenses against their government funding or the insurance company’s funding. No matter what the civil rights laws of a nation are, discrimination will always prevail. As a white American of native birth and education, I cannot secure a position of any sort because I am 74 years old, regardless of my vibrant health, personal health coverage and retirement funding from the USA and the military. So, what is there to do? Keep making applications or just give up?

Racism sadly exists, all we can really do as teachers is our best not to pass it on to the next generations. Having said that many of those who are involved in ESL, but not teachers, are as racist (and misogynistic) as they come. I worked last year at a university in Riyadh. The recruiting agency (EDEX) through which I got the job would butt in all the time interfering with university policy. One occasion , one of the agency lackeys went around the teachers` offices and `chose` a number of us, myself included, to `come to Edex and be photographed`. When asked `why us in particular?` this Pakistani resplied `We only want whites for the brochure`! My response was to sit down again saying I was purple. Worse thing about this was the western face of edex is a white american! Ok he is also a posturing moron but one would think a western educated individual would have more sense.

Joseph,
I am saddened to here about your circumstance. But this is why we have to fight discrimination.
Below is a good website that shows the age limits for each country. Some hire beyond 70. Good-luck.

http://www.internationalschoolsreview.com/nonmembers/age-article.htm

Oops... to "hear" so don’t attack me Grammar Expert.

Hi Mark,
Off course I have read all the posts, and have read the many grammatical, and punctuation errors, including syntax and diphthong errors on special variations of language acquisition, BUT, as I said, there is NO intention to offend, I simply feel, WE as a community can change the perceptions, and I know that there are inequalities in the way natives are chosen as opposed to non natives, but I feel, there could be a standardised process which effectively measures levels of English attainment.
Even an English born and bred (Migrant persons) would also have inherited “Non English” standards purely by the nature of their exposure to their family, friends, environment, hence, an Indian/Pakistani et-all, born in the UK,USA, Australia, legally is a native English speaker, but try listening to some of their dialects,accents and you will detect “Non native” level of diction and comprehension and understanding. This is due entirely to their environment within migrant communities, and adapting to language styles to fit in with NESB community in which they live in.
The whole process is flawed, and off course, I would be put out if a “non native” English speaker was getting more of a salary than me, but ultimately, my point is about ALL OF US working together to arrive at some international standard as educators.
I have written a paper on this matter, and if you can communicate with me somehow privately, I would be happy to share some pertinent points with you from vivid and recent experiences in China.
Would love to discuss further with you, and this is my way of saying, I agree, but.......
Thanks

Hello Arasi,


I too have encountered the same prejudice. My qualifications and circumstances are much like yours, except that I haven’t got CELTA.
Somehow, the phrase ’English Language and Literature teaching’ has become synonymous to white skin or a European or American education. Indeed this is sad. But, if in the same school there is a Native English speaking teacher and there is an English teacher of Indian origin, we all know who the hard worker and go-getter is!
Previously, I was under the impression that only physical beauty was interpreted through the Eurocentric aesthetic looking glass. Now I realize that the world associates language proficiency with white skin and/or European/ American degrees. Asians are not yet free from the colonial effect. Our minds are still colonized. Its high time we begin valuing ourselves before others devalue us. Like the European Union has a policy of hiring the people from the euro zone, we too should prefer Asians first!

Rohini P. Sharma

We all are the commodity in this global market and this is the question of demand and supply of the market. The employers of the teaching institutions are not to blame for this. They are running a business and they are bound to the demand of the market. Currently, the schools want to hire people from the developed countries based on simple reasons that under-developed countries are following their (developed one) education system blindly. So the parents wish their children can speak like Americans or at least British. It is the question of accent. But accent varies from place to place even in the same country. Rational being will not put emphasis on accent. There is another issue related to culture. Parents in Taiwan or China wish their children grow up exacly like the americans in USA or british in UK. Largest part of the parents in Taiwan and China even do not have knowledge about the countries outside USA and UK. I am Indian (doctorate) and our education system is english medium (official). Native speakers in Taiwan and China means white people and black people, since they know that white and black people live in USA and UK (from movie). So, you can see white people and black people are welcome to teach english in Taiwan and China even though the white people are from different countries in europe and the black people from Africa. So, the accent issue is not considered here. What is considered is the demand based on the knowledge of the local parents. We don’t judge how great you are in teaching english, what we demand is that our children can speak english like american in american environment. That’s why lots of American schools or british schools are opened in Taiwan or China. Notice that, these schools are not named ’english learning school’, it is ’American english school’ or ’british english school’. So you can not blame the market for not hiring you. You want to sell fish and you are in the vegetable market. The problem is not racisim, skin colour, or ethnicity. It is the limited knowledge of the local parents who create the demand for this job. So whom to blame? Your skill will not be appreciated by the people in this market and it will not be changed in near future. Believe me, if you follow the american accent, you still will not be welcome in Taiwan or China to teach english. The employers check the passport. So, you better steer your career in the direction where your skills will be welcome. Please go to fish market to sell fish where you can find the real customers who knows how to appreaciate the quality of your fish, rather than requesting the vegetable customers to buy fishes. People teaching english in Taiwan and China are not qualified to teach english and they even don’t have any educational degrees. Hope you understand now what is called demand of the market.

Mister Penticost, I acknowledge your grammar skills but I do not appreciate your ill posts about us. These posts aren’t for you to acquit errors. This is not a place for you to anchor off your tactless mouth and belittling skills. By the way my previous post was colloquial. I bet your students are unsatisfied with your arrogant and cocky aura. Clipping our wings clearly flaunts how a tall poppy you are. Good day!!

To the administrator and to Arasi who created this thread, I really thought that this insensitive person MARK PENTECOST should be deleted in this thread and to all, I deeply apologize with my language below, but I felt the need to step down my level to this type of man.

To Mr. Pentecost: Oh dear, you might be good in your grammar but you need to be educated with your ethics and values as an educator. I felt bad for Arasi who started this thread. You are an insensitive insecure freak who did not get recognition and now you are using this thread to flaunt your grammar skills to be recognized. I suggest you go home to your home country wherever you came from and help your own kind learn the basic grammar rather than correcting the grammar of the people in this thread who are probably has more degrees and education than you do. You are sick and your professionalism stink! Make a self-check and grow up. If you are good with you grammar skills, stop making other people thread feel bad about theirs. You are just one sick man who needs to be recognized, and now you got it, so stop and get help!
To my fellow Filipinos and other non-native English speakers in this thread, this man is trying to intimidate the rest of us with his simple achievements of being able to teach English grammar to different countries. Oh, well..I am not even sure if this man can solve the square root of 789 without using a calculator!

Filipinos and other non-native speakers MIGHT BE BETTER and SKILLFUL than you Mister Penticost. I am a nurse by profession but I found love in teaching. People here in the Philippines knows American and British accents, others maybe fluent in both. I CLEARLY WANT TO STATE that WE FILIPINOS are WELL EDUCATED in English and other languages. Most of us could speak 4 or more languages FLUENTY! Good day!

Hahn Bryan, no I didn’t say that at all and of course native speakers make mistakes in their writing but I would bet you that it’s a lot less often than a non native speaker. It probably has a lot to do with level of education and type of jobs they’ ve done in the past, etc. As far as official languages go, I said that the Asian countries list native speaking countries as..... You’re putting words into my mouth for some reason. I was just stating facts and telling it like it is. You being a broadcaster should know all about freedom of speech. And to the others who disagree with anything I said, it’s your right to voice your opinions and feel free to say anything you like. It doesn’t bother me in the least because I stick to what I said, it’s your right to do so. Just as I said in the past, I didn’t make the rules or create the perceptions but it’s quite obvious what the reasons are for the original post on this thread. A non native speaker is having difficulty finding a position as an English teacher. Should I be surprised or sympathetic about that? I don’t think so, all jobs in the world have certain criteria and qualifications that must be met. If you don’t meet the requirements of the employer, don’t apply for the job. It seems pretty simple to me....

Mr. Roma, and the others who disagree. As I said, you can say what you like but I noticed none of you had anything to say in response to the fact that the Phils has the same requirements as most other countries in Asia, possibly even more strict in certain cases. Wouldn’t that be some sort of hypocrisy or double standard? So it’s ok there but not in other countries I guess....

Greetings,
Really,I feel you because .I have been working as an ESL teacher,supervisor,trainer with BA in English arts and Education from Egyptian universities.have TESOL,KAPPA DELTA certificates and higher cert/studies in English ,training and supervisors’skills from USA universities.more than 40 English courses in different area though the majority of recruiters either prefer natives for beign white or for reputation.I am near-native,Bilingual with 32 years of experience overseas"Egypt,Kuwait,USA,KSA".qualified,veteran and outgoing but unlucky to receive offers unlike some natives with no experience in teaching nor qualifications but I will not give up to despair because one day,recruiters may consider us .
Best regards
Hamed Hammad
An EsL senior supervisor,trainer
Egypt

I just thought I should mention to all of you who are talking about discrimination. If for example you come from China or Thailand and want to become an Air Hostess. I know for a fact that if you don’t meet their height and weight requirements, your application will not even be accepted by any of the airlines. I don’t hear or see any people writing blogs or threads about these issues online and it seems to be an even worse case of discrimination. It exists everywhere in the world in different forms and it’s a sad fact of life. I’m not discriminating or a racist but I’ve been doing this job for over 7 years and what I’ve told you here was purely based on my own personal experience in 3 different countries.That being said, it’s not likely to change any time soon so in my opinion it’s not worth discussing.any further. As I’ve said many times, if you don’t meet the requirements, don’t apply.

******* What is it that they say about someone who keeps doing the same thing over and over again but expects a different result? Oh, yeah.... *******

Hello Everyone, thank you for your comments, importantly your feedback and corrections. I believe we can end this forum. I appreciate all your comments and views but it is time to close this chapter.
Good Luck and best wishes to all of you.

Arcielo, if you think it’s ok for any teacher (native or not) to stand up there in front of a classroom full of students and teach them poor pronunciation, bad language habits and incorrect grammar, that’s cool. It just makes their next teacher’s job much more difficult and I’m sure this is the case with many students. The first time they learn something it sticks and becomes harder and harder to change as time goes by. You’re entitled to your opinion though, but don’t preach about professionalism if that’s how you feel. It’s one way or the other man. And whatever the square root of 789 has to do with teaching English is a bit of a mystery to me, sorry. I didn’t know math was directly related to teaching a language but it’s my mistake. And to think I’ve been doing this job for years and I finally just find out now that it was related directly to mathematics, boy is my face red! Maybe you’re a good teacher, maybe average, maybe awful. I don’t know and I don’t care. It’s not my fault that things are this way so you can sling your petty little comments, whine about your situation and attack me as much as you want. It’s not going to change a thing in terms of working abroad as an English teacher. My situation is just fine and will remain that way for as long as I choose to continue teaching I suppose. One of the perks of being a native speaker I guess but I feel no need to apologize for that whatsoever. We play the cards we’re dealt and make the best of the situation we’re facing....