Teaching in Guangzhou I have recently signed a contract to t...

Paul, This sounds suspect. They should be able to secure you a visa. I would move on, there are plenty of other positions available!

How can you get a working visa from old employer and work with a new employer. The 2 are not related and you will most likely get your work visa cancelled when you leave your current employer. The only reason i believe the agent is doing this is because they can not get you a working visa. Why can you not go to Hong Kong to get a visa? I have had friends that have stayed in China when switching jobs for there visa.

Hey Paul,

Amazing how lies are hidden amongst truths? Truth is, the rules in China are indeed changing, HK will soon no longer be an option. The government - in all its infinite wisdom - are making it law that the foreign expert will have to fly home to their native country in order to get their z-visa. My only advice is organise a different agent (since when is a Chinese agent altruistic?), then have a great time at home and work it out from there. All the best. Dell

"Hiring Agents" aren’t always experts and of course maybe economical with the truth..

Best idea would be to go and speak with the Government Department for Residency or something like that.. Legal stuff like working visas etc., requires the correct information first hand.

Maybe the best option is to drop that "Hiring Agent" and move on

Best of luck Paul

Teaching in Guangzhou

In this instance you are only a hop skip and jump from Hing Kong and, should be able to get a visa from there. Maybe its an age issue? and they dont like to tell you! so be careful.
It might even be safer, to apply for a position in Shandong Province, as they are not so racist on age.

Hi Paul,

I’ve worked in Guangzhou, and I assure you that Guangzhou is not different. (Anymore than ALL provinces have their own quirks and exceptions.) Only your employer can provide you with a Z(工,作, or Work) Visa. Your agent is lying to you. Dump the contract and get a different job. The contract cannot be enforced so long as you do not have your visa sponsored by them. And if they cannot provide you with the legal means to work for them (i.e. a Z visa), then you are not obligated to stay with the contract. I would stay in Hunan until you can find an honest employer.

Paul, your old employer will cancel the work visa (Z visa) leaving you open to obtain another from a different employer. The new employer can apply right there in China for the (Z) visa for you. The best way is to contact the new employer to ask them if they can obtain the work visa.

Sounds like they do not want to pay for the Z visa, and want your old or current employer to do so. My z visa was arranged by my school on arrival in Jiangsu. I had to go with my employer to the local immigration police office. It (the z or work visa) was finalized after a few weeks and stamped into my passport. They advised me before I arrived in China NOT to go down the L (tourist) visa road. If they wont pay Id go with others and look for another employer.

I had a Canadian friend with a similar problem. The new school that hired him was unable to obtain a Z Visa for him. He had to go back to Canada and get the Visa. I think there was some "campaign" last year to clean up illegal foreigners in China. And he got caught up in the law during that time which stated that " If the foreign employee is hired in China and is required to go back to their home country to apply for a Z visa..." I hope this is still not the case. You need to check with the actual school and not the "hiring agent" they have a tendency to try and bleed money from people. They will tell you that you have to go back home but if you give me XXXX rmb the can make the issue disappear. Major problem with many Agents is the corruption that is rampant.

Is this China or Korea?

paul,

First of all, Guangzhou is a city in the province of Guangdong. Stay away from that school since the only way you work legally in China is with a Z-visa endorsed with a letter of invitation by the new school you will be working for in the future.

Hi Paul, I have just left China after 3 horrific months working in a Beijing school. On leaving they said they were going to fine me 7000 yuan for obtaining the working residents visa (that I asked them not to). I would NEVER work in Beijing again, the constant money bleeding, lies and double dealing. If they are playing silly beggars before you go it isn’t going to improve, there are plenty of teaching jobs in China. Just don’t go to the school I taught at, it was a business not a school. One teacher had his nose broken (compound fractures, bust septum) by an out of control pupil with a wealthy family, just a few days before I left. The student was given a day’s suspension and made the teacher’s special helper. The teacher and his teacher girlfriend are going back to the states. Enough is enough.

Scott S. is right, based on my experience, with the exception that I sent my passport back to an agent in the States, rather than fly back there myself. I used FedEx to send my passport and other documents. All done in ten days. That may not be possible now, because the rules keep changing, but check it out before you fly home. This is the agency I used. There are others, I’m sure. http://www.mychinavisa.com/index.php
A little over a year ago, some Westerner men were seriously bothering some Chinese women, which happens a lot in cities like Beijing. The Chinese finally got really angry, spurred on by news commentator Yang Rui (CCTV9 Dialogue), calling on the government to throw out foreign trash. It sparked a reaction.

You must get a termination or clearance letter from your previous employer.

You also need all your documents and a new medical clearance.

Then your new school can apply for a new working visa. The entire process starts again with your new school.

The rules are confusing and changing. Many schools are not sure of the exact requirements/process.

Paul. I’m sorry to say that this has been the case. I too tried for a job in Guangzhou last year and was informed that I would have to go back to my country of residence for my visa. Upon checking it out I found it to be true. I decided to go with my current school in Chengdu since they could (and did) send me to Hong Kong. Go figure. Unfortunately the rules on this will change on 1st July 2013 and I understand that ALL Hong Kong Z visa runs will cease, meaning a return to your country of residence for a Z visa. While this is irritating and expensive, it is understandable that the Chinese govt wish to tighten up the laws on the standard of foreign teachers coming to China. Have you considered sending all your documents home to someone you trust and who can sort it out for you there? I know it’s risky but I do know people who have done it this way.

Hi, Paul. Welcome to Guangzhou or Hunan, whichever fits your career. If you want the new job in Guangzhou, I would suggest forgetting about Hunan, forcing that school to give up on its Visa. As a foreign ESL teacher you can travel within China, and back and forth across the border from Guangzhou to Hong Kong. If someone in Hunan is leading you to believe you can’t travel to Guangzhou or to Hong Kong, I think they’re mistaken. When I lived in Zengcheng last year, I traveled back and forth from the mainland to Hong Kong using my long-term ESL Visa. The immigrations guard at the border subway train station just stamps your Passport Book each time you cross into or out of Hong Kong, which is similar to Shenzhen in that it is considered a special Chinese Economic Zone. I believe Taiwan is viewed as a seperate country, but I’m not certain. When I had the temporary one-month Work Visa to enter China and go to my new school in Zengcheng for the first time, I didn’t visit Hong Kong after entering the mainland from the Hong Kong airport because I wasn’t certain if the temporary one-month Visa could leave the mainland and come back to the mainland. A temporary Work Visa says you can only enter China once as a tryout for the new school, but a long-term Visa for one year or nine months or whatever may not say that, which means you can come and go to China. Study your Visa carefully. What does it say, that you can only enter China once? Hong Kong is generally considered to be part of China, even though some people say it’s not part of the mainland. The first time I crossed the border with my long-term nine-month Work Visa, I doubled-checked with the Hong Kong - Mainland guards to make certain it was okay to go back and forth from Guangzhou to hong Kong and back to Guangzhou. I visited Hong Kong during several weekends or Sundays off from my Zengcheng ESL classroom teacher job for sightseeing, sports TV, hotels, etc. To transition from the one-month Work Visa to the nine-month Work Visa, I took long-distance busses and Guangzhou city taxis to the Guangdong Public Safety Bureau which is located in Guangzhou. Where are you located? I’m assuming you’re currently located in Hunan. if you have a regular Work or Tourist Visa, you can travel by airplane, train or bus to the Public Safety Bureau in Guangzhou to get the new school’s Work Visa. The new school must give you a copy of a legitimate contract and the related documents, like physical exam paperwork, to take in person to the Public Safety Bureau. The Public Safety Bureau may decide whether you meet their requirements and whether or not your current old school/employer is really giving up on your current Visa. The way you’re asking this question seems confusing. Are you currently located outside of China? If so, you would visit the nearest Chinese embassy in your country to apply for a temporary Work Visa for whichever school has sent you a legitimate contract. It’s up to the Chinese embassy to decide whether to issue you a Visa, based on the application process. If you’re currently located in Hong Kong, you could approach the Chinese embassy there. I’ve heard fright stories that the Hong Kong Chinese embassy has ceased issuing Visas to Americans for the mainland. However, I don’t think you would know for certain unless you visited the embassy in person and put in an application. I don’t think rumors are always true. If you were desperate, they might make an exception to a rule but probably not. If you’re in a foreign place like Hong Kong, and one country rejects your application, you could look into entering another country to attend an ESL school for a certificate, ESL classroom teaching, other appropriate work or training, or simply as a traveling backpacking tourist. If you’re in an emergency, let the authorities know, yet realize they’ll give you their answer. Experts have told me that Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, Thailand, Viet Nam, etc. are popular destinations in Asia. What about Russia or Turkey? I guess there’s a slow economy right this moment in Europe. If you’re not currently located in North America, and you’re in some foreign country, you must approach the immigration officials and/or the local police in that country to get their Visa for employment or tourism. For instance, if you’re currently situated in Guangdong Province, where Guangzhou is the large provincial capital, you would take a taxi or bus to the Public Safety Bureau for Guangdong Province. When you reach the correct bureau, the officials will know why you’re there. There are several floors with seating for Visa applicants from many different foreign countries, yet they had some type of temporary or Work Visa to get into China in the first place. It helps if you’re bilingual. If not, they deal with foreignors from many countries, as does the staff at international airports. First-time ESL teachers and inexperienced tourists can easily become nervous about not knowing the ropes. Never hesitate to be aggressive and ask for help, even if you only speak English. Where’s the translation? There’s an interesting question.

Hi Paul, I got my working visa in Hong Kong, a year a go, I live in Shenzhen which is in the same province as Guangzhou. It is impossible for a previous employer to get you a visa for your next employer. The laws are changing, but if you use an agent in Hong Kong you should be safe (at least for the time being). If you are already in China you should already know that a former employer does nothing for you once you leave their employ. Be sure to get a letter of release (saying when your contract expires from your current employer) a letter of invitation from you new employer along with the other documents that slip my mind at the moment to make the process easier. Some agents also require paperwork from the schools that says they are authorised to have foreign experts in them, without that paper it may be hard or impossible to get a visa. If I was you (unless it is a real international school) I would give Guangzhou a miss, it is a bit of a toilet, there are much better places to work in CHina, Beijing, Shanghai, Nanjing, Xi’an I have al found to be the pick of the bunch. I am off to Qingdao next, where I have heard good things. Good Luck Paul.

Hi guys, just to expand on the thread I posted earlier on changes in the law (HK will soon no longer be an easy option to renew your z-visa). A couple of other things to bear in mind from friends in the PSB is that they may well in the future require a CRB check (don’t worry it’s only £50), and eventually they will require some modicum of Mandarin. In which case, here’s a great site that I used back in the day when I first arrived in China: www.byki.com (don’t worry, I’m a cheapskate, it’s free). All the best. Dell

The service agent is a crook full stop. The foreign affairs department of your future employer is responsible for Visa and residential permits. If the rules are different then logically a Visa from Hunan would be invalid. I’ve had the same experiences. Perhaps check with the local government in Guangzhou.

it could be that the school in Guangzhou is NOT ABLE to get a Z visa (I got into this predicament before), and that is why they want to use up the leftover time from your current school in Hunan. In short, they want to steal staff from your current school. This kind of impotent school will not help you last long, since your working visa (residency permit) will be out soon. You need to forget this scam, and just tell the hiring agent find you a new school, or just find a new agent. Age maybe a factor if over 60. But in my problem with that school before (a sport college), the school could not make Z visa at all, since they were not on the list of eligibility. That school always relied on nearby schools’ teachers (hence those schools’ working permit), and provided a convenient schedule to make up their waiting for the teachers of other schools

My understanding is that you do not need to replace or renew your Z Visa if you have not left China. All you need to do is get a New Resident Visa and Foreign Expert Certificate, which your new school should organise. Your Resident Visa replaces your Z Visa. If the agent and school cannot arrange this than I would look for another posting.

Hi Paul,
I spoke with my boss here in Liaoning. He said that the school in GuangZhou must provide you with your working visa. If you have a working visa in Hunan you can only work in Hunan. It is a country wide policy.

I don’t know about Guangzhou specifically, but what could help is to get your Teaching permit (license, it looks kind of like a passport) from your last contract school, usually they will keep it in their possession, but you can ask them for copies of needed pages and send those to the agency. With those they may be able to convince their local PSB to accept your Z visa application. I have worked in Shenyang chemical university for 6 years and I can change to any school in Shenyang through that PSB immigration office, but I my visa application through Boading University last year was turned down by the Hebei PSB based on I needed to go the US and apply from there, in their little brains. Maybe the next time you return to your home country you can reapply to a new location and they will accept the application or you can pay them off about 10,000 yuan. If you let your current employer get your visa and them you bail and leave, they won’t give the copies of your work permit and the the PCB won’t give you a Z visa, but the school can probably get you a 1 year L visa in which can get you fined for working in China, but it will let you stay for a year longer each year your school gets it for you. See how that works.

Hi everyone! I am trying to move to the Daliang area. I am finding it difficult to get a teaching position, unless I want to teach in universities located out in "no-where". I am in contact with a smaller school with the location I desire, but they told me they are "ineligible" to continue my z-visa. We have an interview scheduled for 1 week, and I think he may bring up going to HK. So, I have 2 questions: 1) what will going to HK mean? Do I actually get a z-visa for ML China? 2) I will be returning to the U.S. in July-August regardless. Can I still get a visa from U.S. whith the help of this school? If not, do I actually have any options besides finding a different school?

Speaking of Foreign Expert Certificates and teaching in Guangzhou, can anyone tell me definitively the upper age restriction. I first was interested in a couple positions in Shenzhen, and then considering Guangzhou, and though I have a Master’s and good teaching experience (mostly at University/College level), I’ve been advised that having just turned 60 - I cannot get either a work visa or a Foreign Expert Certificate. Thanks for any info. Then there are those who say keep looking and be persistent, and an employer who really wants to hire me will find a way. I take it that is more or less true in different areas of China? Thanks. Paul

Paul Stayert,Hi. Just in response to your question about age restrictions. Every bit of literature I have seen on working visas here points to 60 being the cut off. I have never seen an explanation as to why they feel 60 is the limit but that is what all companies/schools say. Perhaps it is just as simple as they feel it is too old as they retirement age in China is 55. The only way I know to get around it is if you have a D Visa, a resident visa that you can apply for after you have married a Chinese national, bought a house, worked for 5 years consecutively and paid your taxes. You can also get a D Visa if you are really rich and can inject 500,000 US into the Chinese economy through industry, I guess as a teacher you are not the later. Good luck.

WOW!!!
To Zack, Steven, Prof. Dell P. MacTaighain, Michael, David, Jason, Calvert, Chris, Scott, Nelson, Greg, Theresa, Thomas, Ken, Denise, Michael, Rodney, Steve, Tan Le, Rodney, Karen, Jerry, Terry and Paul. Sorry I can’t reply to you all personally but thanks for your input.

After reading your comments and approaching my present employer for advice I have reached the following conclusion:
Guangdong does in fact have a different policy about issuing visas to foreign teachers than other provinces in China. It is also my understanding that the law is about to change on July 1st and agencies will no longer be allowed to obtain a visa for a teacher to work outside of their city. As an example I am employed by a training centre in Hengyang but I teach in Leiyang, both of which are in Hunan. After the 1st of July this will no longer be possible. Also travelling to Hong Kong to apply for a visa will no longer be an option. Please correct if me this information is wrong but as usual in Asia the law is designed to totally confuse the laowai.
I have therefore decided to decline the position in Guangzhou and because I have less than three weeks to find alternative employment in China I will take a holiday to Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam. Hopefully inbetween bar hopping and sightseeing I will stumble across a school which needs a teacher and fits my humble requirements.
Please don’t let me deter you from teaching in Guangdong but also take heed of your peer’s comments on this topic.
Special thanks to Denise and Prof. Dell P. MacTaighain. I think your comments were as close to the real facts as we Westerners will ever be.

Terry,what have seen is that at the end of the 2013-2014 school year all foreigners will have toreturn to their home country to renew their Z Visa if it has expired. Hong Kong will no longer be an option. Also in the new regulations all foreign teachers applying for a Z Visa will have to supply a current police record status.
Second point is that teachers over 60 will no longer be able to be employed in China.

Hi Paul, I have not been to China. But the little I know about work, visa requirements lead me to say that your agent does not seem to be honest, reliable or trustworthy.
Conclusion: keep your current job till you find better and one that can process all your paper work, including the working visa. No employer whom you are about to leave will give you a working visa to work for someone else.!!!! Can you imagine a loving spouse giving a present to the other half who is requesting a divorce and about to marry someone else?

Paul, I believe you traveled in order to teach English. Don’t forget you’re original goal you wanted to teach in a classroom. I believe these jobs are vacant across China. As I understand it, there are different Visas. They come from the Public Safety Bureau in each provincial capital. Any local police station might give you directions for obtaining a Visa in English.

Were you a legal teacher in Hunan?